How the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Debate Goes Down

Macro-Analysis

Blue is what Zimmerman’s persecutors argue.  Red is what his defenders argue.  

  • Zimmerman murdered Trayvon.
  • No, Zimmerman was being attacked 1.3. and had a reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death 4.
  • Trayvon was the one defending himself, and he was the one in fear of great bodily harm or death.
  • Trayvon had no reason to be defending himself or to be in fear of great bodily harm or death. 2. 3.
  • Yes he did. Zimmerman aggressively chased Trayvon and then threatened Trayvon with his gun.

That’s it.  His persecutors have no place to go after this but the land of ludicrous.

Evidence References

  1. Zimmerman had significant injuries.
  2. Martin had no injuries except a cut on a finger.
  3. Witness(es) saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman.
  4. Frantic cries for help are recorded on 911 calls.

The evidence indicates (or outright proves) that Trayvon was not chased, Trayvon was  not injured, and was not threatened by Z’s gun.  So how did Trayvon have any legitimate cause to attack Zimmerman?  He didn’t.  And why in the hell would it be Trayvon screaming for help? It wasn’t.

Manslaughter

This has always been, at worst, a manslaughter case. The only serious questions in this case relate to manslaughter.   I think there are basically two approaches one could take to it:

  1. Zimmerman’s fear of imminent great bodily harm or death was not reasonable.  In other words, that he overreacted to a self-defense situation.
  2. Zimmerman’s actions (or inactions) contributed to the circumstances in a way that he should have reasonably anticipated.  In other words, he acted recklessly. 

I’ll approach the question of manslaughter in more detail in a future post,  but briefly:

1. While his injuries were not life-threatening, I believe the fact that Trayvon did not cease the attack while Zimmerman screamed for help (over and over), indicated a desire to really hurt Zimmerman.   Having already sustained a broken nose, I believe his fears of great bodily harm were reasonable.  (His screams for help are incredibly helpful to Zimmerman for so many reasons. Without them, the question of whether his belief was reasonable would be far more difficult to determine. This would be a different case.

[Note:  I am not ignoring Zimmerman’s claim that Trayvon threatened to kill Zimmerman and then reached for Zimmerman’s gun because I disbelieve Zimmerman, but because it can’t easily be proven, and it doesn’t need to be.]

2. I actually believe his actions were understandable and appropriate based on the circumstances as they appeared to be at the time.   I don’t believe he acted recklessly at all.  If I were to criticize anything it would have been placing himself in what he could have foreseen was a potentially  (but not likely)  possibility of a conflict, while armed.   However, as I said, I think he could not have reasonably foreseen that the guy would relentlessly attack him , nobody would help him, etc.  This wasn’t a shoot first, ask questions later situation.

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23 thoughts on “How the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Debate Goes Down

  1. 1.Zimmerman had significant injuries. Not true.

    2.Martin had no injuries except a cut on a finger. And a bullet hole to the chest that obliterated his heart and a lung!!

    Sorry – not even going to bother reading the rest of this nonsense.

    • Well, of course Zimmerman had significant injuries. He had a probably broken nose, lacerations, and a bloody head. Hence, significant injuries. I don’t expect you to read the rest, but that’s how it’s going to go down Miss thing.

  2. Following someone who is running FROM you like GZ said is chasing. Martin was chased. Maybe GZ turned around, maybe he didn’t but that doesn’t change the fact that he followed someone running from him. Its still chasing. So yes, GZ DID chase Martin. Did he stop at some point? Maybe, but you can’t say he didn’t.

    Following someone who “appears” to be on drugs is reckless. If it was a real thug or villain ZImm had been following and Zimm had been overtaken and robbed of his weapon, then those people in their homes are in danger. Zimm has provided someone with a weapon. If ZImm couldn’t take a kid half his size, what chance did he have against someone who was really up to no good? So how can you say his actions were understandable and appropriate when it endangers lives?

    What if he was following someone who was armed and decided to fire GZ and he decides to fire back? Bullets flying back and forth between homes, in the dark, while its raining. Yeah, nothing reckless about that huh?

    If Zimm was screaming for dear life, why did the EMTs check his vitals as normal? Shouldn’t he be in shock or his heart be racing? Broken nose? Where is the X-rays?

    Take down your blog before the prosecution submits it into evidence.

    • He obviously had not been chasing Trayvon at the time the encounter began. We heard him on the phone for the entire period of time. There was no “chase” going on.

      The person *appeared* to have left the area, which is why he got out to see where he went. Hehe, why would the prosecution submit it into evidence? This is merely how it’s going to go down.

      • You just said he was lol.

        He is running from me. I went to see where he went. I’m following him.

        That is chasing.

        And what makes you think you can “hear” a chase going on. What exactly would you be listening for? TM screaming because he is running? GZ’s foot steps on damp sidewalks (because its raining)

        You’re funny.

        • He went to the “T” to see where he went. That’s hardly chasing. Trayvon could have WALKED home in the remaining two minutes of Zimmerman’s phone call. But he didn’t. Not only that, but the encounter began at the TOP of the “T”. So there was absolutely no chasing. That is a joke. And yes, if someone is “running after” someone, you would hear them running and breathing hard. — I don’t know how more simply I can put this to you. Trayvon could have WALKED home in the remaining two minutes of Zimmerman’s phone call alone. End of story.

  3. What the hate brigade consistently continues to refuse to accept is the fact that even if George shot out of his truck like an Olympic Sprinter (and I say IF), all their arguments end with 776.041. In their unthinking brains, George was the aggressor (he wasn’t). To make the logical jump to George instigated the assault on his person, they have to accept that once there was a disparity in force i.e. being knocked on to his back, and pummeled, 041 still applies. They seem to constantly overlook this fact.
    As a matter of fact, George could have got out of the truck, followed Trayvon to his front door, stopped to kick a puppy, and yell “Let’s go Mother F-er!” and STILL would be justified to use deadly force as described by Florida Law. Of course we all know that George was assaulted as he was returning to his truck, but all of their hopeless theories still do not change the fact that he was justified.

    • Just because your warped inbred mind can’t see the OBVIOUS fact that Zimmerman was the aggressor, doesn’t negate REALITY. You Nazis are disgusting and should be allowed to join Trayvon in death. I hate you disgusting fucking Nazi bastards and hope you meet with the most hideous of deaths ever-fucking conceivable.

  4. This is a self-defense case. The standard when self-defense is raised is who was the aggressor. . [B]Following someone is not against the law.[/B] Nor is it provocation to be punched in the face. George admitted he had lost Trayvon on the call to police. Dee Dee admitted Tayvon said he lost him.
    Trayvon had plenty of time to go home and get away from any preceived danger that he may have felt. He chose not to. He chose to confront George with words and then a punch. Trayvon is the aggressor. There is no evidence Zimmerman ever followed Trayvon south of W6’s address, and there’s plenty of evidence he didn’t.

    • Exactly. We all know how things transpired, but the he guilty crowd are incapable of making the logical conclusion that regardless of what happened: At the moment Trayvon decided to circle back and confront George, Trayvon became the agressor. George leaving his truck is irrelevant.

    • I dare you to sit in a circle of rape victims and say following someone is not a provocation to defend oneself.

      And there goes your logic out the window.

      Its called reasonable expectations. If you follow someone running from you and you catch up to them, it is reasonable to expect them to be on the defensive because they were running from you just like GZ said TM was.

      You think you can’t follow a woman, catch up to her and her not scream or pull out mace? Gonna tell the police when they arrive that following isn’t against the law? No you won’t. Not if you don’t want to look stupid anyways.

      When did TM choose to confront GZ? GZ didn’t even see him turn around. He said he lost him. He doesn’t know if he passed TM or just bumped into him. There is no evidence that GZ stopped following either. OK doesn’t mean anything.

      Don’t forget GZ said that he didn’t want to give his address to dispatcher because he didn’t know where TM was. Well why can’t TM not want to reveal his address to some guy following him in the dark?

      WHOOPS! Another defense out the window for GZ.

      • The encounter began at the TOP of the T. Do you understand that this means that George was not following him (beyond walking to the “T” to see which way he went)? Do you understand that this means that Trayvon was not fleeing? If you don’t, a judge or jury will- unless they are incredibly stupid.

      • Straw man arguments do not throw things out the window. There was no following. I do not understand why you sycophants continuously throw nonsense against the wall and claim it sticks even though it falls to the ground.

      • Sit in a circle of rape victims ??? Why on earth would anyone compare a rape case to this case as if they are related in the same way ??? That’s not logical or smart. This is a M2 case with a self-defense claim. HUGE difference.

        Reasonable expectations ??? Not even close. No one reasonably expects to be punched in the nose for answering a question. Following someone is NOT sufficient provocation for being hit by anyone according to the law.

        You asked, “when did TM choose to confront GZ”? Are you following the case ? The state is making that claim. Not only have they admitted that TM hit GZ under oath in a hearing but also the prosecution’s whole Probable Cause Affidavit was based on what Dee Dee said. Maybe you should listen to her interview with BDLR, you will see that she admits that TM confronted GZ.
        It will also confirm for you that she says TM lost GZ.
        So that is GZ AND Dee Dee AND the prosecution saying the same thing.

        If this gets to trial, the state’s evidence will have to be proven. The state has not released any evidence to date that indicates it agrees with your opinion regarding TM not wanting to give out his address.

    • More lies and propaganda from the FUCKING racist sacks of FUCKING Shit. I hope you muther fuckers are found dead somewhere. how dare you sick, Nazis blame the victim of the “wanna be” cop. Just fucking euthanize your WORTHLESS inbred selves. Disgusted beyond measure. I take a reasonable degree of solace from the fact that Zimmerman will eventually be killed (in prison) – hopefully in the most fucking painful way imaginable, and ONLY after being repeatedly sodomized for hours on end, before his [technical] evisceration.

      • “Good, I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon. Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!”

        That, my African American soldier, was from a white movie-film called “Star Wars”, from one of those “Zionist” directors. . Your brother Lando was in it, and James Earl Jones did the voice of Darth Vader.

        You know what I think is kind of “racist”, but is so ingrained into cultural belief as to never change? That dark represents bad, and light represents good. With very few exceptions (black Friday being I’ve of them, being in the black, etc.).

        There are explanations for this that have little to do with racism, such as night vs. day. But every time I hear dark or black associated with something negative I wonder what subliminal effect it might have.

        I’d ask you your thoughts, but I’m afraid you’re only capable of venting your frustrations and anger, and rational thought is probably not your strongest suit.

        No, you will just end up talking about decapitating Zimmerman again, whom you’ve Anglofied to better resemble your perceptions of the enemies to your race.

  5. stormreaper is either a member of the Zimmerman inbred KKKlan, his immoral attorneys, or some crackpot racist animal that is purposing to incite racial hatred (with much success) against others. I hope he’s found decapitated in his trailer park home.

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